Monday, March 26, 2012

How do you define Progress?

***ETA:  I wrote this post last night, and scheduled it to go live today.  Almost no one actually GOT the point of the post.  Everyone is still on the "should we buy tickets" bandwagon....which for the record, I never asked if I should or shouldn't.  

In my GBU yesterday, I mentioned that we were "thinking" about getting concert tickets.  Our last concert was almost 10 years...oops....8 years ago (the kids were ALMOST 2).  Are they pricey?  Yep.  We were thinking about it; no decision made.  We have had 2 big date nights in the past year....and this would be the next one (not counting the wedding we have in May).

Is it the BEST use of money?  Depends on your definition of BEST.  No, it isn't going to debt.  But if you define BEST as "the ability for a couple to have a night out, see a show we both would enjoy, and have a night off from the stress of our life,"  then yes.  We have also considered only having G-man go (as he wants to go more than I do, even though I do want to go).  Then we would only have 1 ticket and parking.  No sitter or anything.

Consuelo made a comment regarding our numbers and our "lack of progress" in the past few months.

I am not going to deny that numbers are ugly.  I never have.  We were making progress, and last year really wrenched that.  No denying that.  But to say "lack of progress" in the past few few months isn't accurate.  I haven't updated our sidebar in the past few days because I know it is all about to change, and decided to wait until the big change to do the update.  But the comment really upset me, so I looked a few things up....a few things that may not be as apparent to you all because I don't share EVERY detail.

Since January 1....

  • We have increased our EF by $324.    Prior to my root canal, we had just under $1,300 in there.  We withdrew some to float that money to get a discount.  When our FSA reimburses us, it will go back to the EF, and we will have the $1300 again, and are working toward
  • We have saved over $500 towards the kids' camp for the summer, which acts as day care for us while we work.
  • We have saved $550 in overtime pay.  Part of this is paying for G-man's speeding ticket and fishing license.  The rest is going toward our weekend trip to Sesame Place for Autism Day (entrance to the park is free, other than a $25 parking fee which goes to charity.  We have a gov't discount for the hotel).
  • We have saved enough so far to pay for our water bill, which will come in May.  And we are on track to have the money saved for our personal property taxes in July.
  • We paid off our retirement loan (whose numbers were never added into any of the tallies, but at the start of the blog....we had about $7100 left), a few year early.
  • We established a "cat fund" that currently has enough for all three cats' check-ups, and have been working on saving per month for food and litter.
Based on the numbers on January 1, as reported in my Financial Goals for 2012:

  • The student loan has decreased $456.
  • The car has decreased $642.
  • Medical has increased $50, but as long as Bossy has medical needs, this bill will always be in flux.  Considering I had a $700 root canal, and the overall bill has only gone up $50, I am happy.
This just leaves the CC bills.  Taking the mattress out of the equation, which we had planned to take a little extra out of the next retirement loan to cover....the CC has gone down about $400.  Now, what this means is that we have basically paid off everything we have charged in the past 3 months, and a little more.  This was considerably more, but as I said, we back slid a little on this in the past month.  Included in this have been a few gifts (baby shower, bridal shower, birthday parties).  Some has been eating out when we have been lazy about cooking.  But NONE of it has been shopping for the sake of shopping.  There has been no clothes, music, home decor (as tempting as it has been!!).

Once we take out the loan, I will update all the numbers.  At that point, all of the debt will be at an interest rate of 3.375% or less.  I know that not everyone will agree with the retirement loan for this purpose.  It is taking money from our future.  But in no more than 4 years, it will be paid off, and we will be just about debt free other than the mortgage (right now we are at 5 years to be debt free....but I think we may be able to shave at least some of that off).

I know this is a long post.  So if you made it this far....good for you!!!  But we HAVE made progress.  It isn't gazelle intense....never has been.  But it IS progress.

So to Consuelo....thank you for reading and spurring me to investigate this further.  I am sorry you don't feel like we are making progress, but in the end, we only have to account to ourselves.

34 comments:

  1. There are plenty of less expensive ways to have a nice evening with your husband. A concert is a waste of money.

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    1. I wouldn't say a concert is a waste of money, if it is an activity that you both enjoy. Yes, it is pricey, but I wouldn't say it is a waste.

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    2. That's amazing, Angie, that you can so neatly and bluntly categorize an activity of interest to someone else as a "waste of money." Do you ever pay for experiences or items? They may not interest me, but I could not declare them a waste of money if they interest you or if you enjoy them.

      My husband is a musician and I am guessing you'd consider everything connected with his performances (including musical instruments and equipment) as wastes of both time and money. But many people, including both fans and musicians, disagree on both counts!

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  2. There's definite progress there! :) Keep it up!

    Question: Do you live off of "cash"? Just wondering how you work your budget? Knowing me, I'm probably just missing it somewhere...lol! Do you have an "entertainment" budget? If so I'd jut save that up for the concert then go & enjoy yourselves!! :) I set aside $25/week for "fun", then let it build...

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    1. As a whole, we don't have a specific entertainment budget. We certainly have enough ING accounts that we use to save up for things. We rarely go out, mainly because of the cost of the sitter.

      As for the concert, if we decide to go, we have to decide sooner than later so we can get tickets. If we waited, we won't get tickets.

      As I have said...it was a thought...not set in stone.

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    2. Have you ever considered trying an envelope/jar budget for your variable expenses? Then you'd have a certain allotment for fun, gifts, clothes, etc... and you'd still your debt payments & fixed expenses. It makes my life & budget much easier! If we have $$ we go, if not, we don't.

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  3. Personally I can see that you have made a lot of progress from where you started. Especially considering all the bumps in the road that you have encountered! Way to go!

    As far as the concert, if you feel that it would be something that would bring you and G-man closer, then I say go for it. I am probably in the minority when I suggest that. Sometimes you have to look past the money to see what the experience will bring to your life. Good luck with your decision!

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    1. Thank you for getting the point of this post. I appreciate it.

      Hope you continue to feel well in the final days of your pregnancy.

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  4. I agree with Rachel.You need to make memorable moments in your life. You've made great progress. Enjoy your night out. I've been debating on tickets for Big Time Rush for the kids (this is what my concert experiences are reduced to now). It will be around $200(cheapest) for our family of 6 but after reading your post I think it's an experience the kids will love and worth it.

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  5. Consuelo here. Not only do I agree with Angie, but it seems to me your own numbers support my earlier comment. You note that you have decreased your student loan balance by $456.00. According to your sidebar your student loan total is $27,667. So, you have reduced your student loan debt by 0.02%. Definitely a move in the right direction but, at the rate you are going it will take decades to pay off that debt. Then, of course, there are the credit cards and car payment. Another way of looking at what I'm saying is that you began with $76649 worth of debt in 2009 and, in March 2012 your debt has INCREASED to $77944.00 These are your numbers and I'm just assuming they are more or less accurate. You write a great blog which I enjoy reading but you are not making progress by any conventional measure. It is not about being gazelle or less intense--it is about the overall direction you are taking. As Angie notes, there are lots of other ways to have a fun night out with your spouse. If you opt for the concert it appears you will be paying for it for a long time.

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    1. If you go under the Geekery Page, you will see we were down to 63k in debt (not including the retirement loan, which was still in play then). Then last year we had over $7,000 in car repairs, which ended up with having to purchase a new car (after we paid off G-man's car early), my husband's affair, 2 dental emergencies, increase of my student loan payment per month, loss of the medical waiver for my son's durable medical equipment, increase of $150 a month for oil, $1,000 repairs for the pool.

      The past year sucked. And our finances took a hit. If you could have done it better...good for you.

      This isn't about the concert....this is about your attitude that we aren't making progress. You look at the final number, and not anything that accounted for how we arrived at that number.

      I am not trying to justify buying tickets, which everyone seems to think I am. All I said was it was a thought.

      Do you think I am happy with the numbers? Prior to all the SHIT of the last year, we should have been down in the low 50's by this August. But it didn't work out that way. Sorry.

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  6. Mysti, I define progress by not going deeper in debt for unnecessary things. If you can pay for this concert without going deeper into debt than do it! I realize progress is important, but what kind of progress?

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    1. The concert wouldn't be debt. It would be using the overtime money we get in April towards the evening.

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  7. I have a suggestion: Don't mull over your financial decisions publicly. Then you don't have to hear opinions from everyone. Just do what you think is best and report later. Like how we just bought a brand-new car. I bet everyone would say, "Don't do it!" But we did it anyway. (Actually I did give everyone a chance to talk us out of it but it was a joke and everyone probably knew it.) Occasionally I want everyone's input but more often, it's irrelevant to me. I want to hear my own husband's input but not that of every Tanya, Dominique, and Mary out there.

    People may not agree with everything you do, but it's not their family "business" to run, it's yours. Someone told me we are "crazy to invest." Um... yeah, whatever! I'll be making that decision - it's between me and my bank/brokerage.

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    1. That said - before spending money on a concert, I'd pay off the dentist and not go on a payment plan. Even if you have to owe on a credit card. That's just me, though - I don't like to owe real people - local professionals/proprietors/businesspeople. A faceless credit card company? Sure.

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    2. The dentist will be paid off next month (or at least the kids' dentist). I already stated that once the retirement loan funds, it will free up $200 a month.

      IF we go to the concert, it would come from the overtime money we are getting in April.

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  8. Well, if you are in debt and you put a potential purchase out there, you have to KNOW you will get opinions for Yah and Nah. Because like assholes, everyone has one and everyone has an opinion too.lol

    Remember the old saying, "Its easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission."

    If you don't want advise, just do what you want and then report on what you did afterwards.
    Because if you put it out there before the fact, you WILL get advise.
    Looking for at the numbers and the 'overall direction' long term, Consuelo and Angie have a point. But factoring in life and the health of your relationship, 444 and those on the "just do it" side have a point.
    So I won't add my fuel to this fire, tho it's killing me to shaddup!lol

    You after all is said and done have to live with the consequences of your decisions. Just make them and move on and learn from them. ;-)

    Ya see? I couldn't keep my mouth shut.....lol

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    1. People don't have to agree with me all the time...and sometimes I do deserve a smack. But at the same time....everyone sort of missed the point of this post....

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  9. I say you just spent a ton of money on a mattress-- have a nice night in and break that booger in. No concert needed. That's just too much for a night out.

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    1. I wouldn't say it was a ton of money. I would have rather not spent it, but for the sake of my marriage, I gave in. We found a mattress that was closer to the original amount we discussed.

      So, how much is appropriate for a night out....

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    2. "So, how much is appropriate for a night out...."

      Your question is a good one.

      Some people have success using this technique where instead of working with numerical amounts, they convert the amount to an object. There is actually a PERFECT comic on XKCD today demonstrating this: http://xkcd.com/1035/

      You can think of what YOUR favorite guilty pleasure is. Forget everyone else because this is a personal thing. Could be a Starbucks or a book or a pair of shoes or whatever. Pick one and attach an average dollar amount to it.

      If your favorite guilty pleasure is shoes and you notice your favorite types of shoes run about $50 a pop you can now start thinking in terms of shoes. So $1000 is 20 pairs of shoes. $100 is 2 pairs of shoes. $25 is half a pair of shoes.

      Like I said, this doesn't really work unless you pick something that you really enjoy but other people do this successfully with life necessities too. For example $100 is one week of groceries so $1000 feeds your family for 10 weeks.

      Now, I am trying to think of a way to say this without it coming all wrong. I don't mean to offend because I do support you in a big way.

      I have noticed a lot of mentions on your blog about money and G-man and G-man and money. G-man seems to be tied to a lot of money, moreso than your kids, or even your own health (molar). And what I think you need to do is take a step back for a bit and do some heavy-duty thinking.

      I know a blog is a blog and it's hard to get a complete understanding of someone and their complicated life from it but you are pretty open and honest in your writing so I feel as if you are inviting us to feel as if we DO have a good idea of what is going on in Mystiland (cause otherwise, what would be the point right?)

      You constantly put everyone ahead of you. The fact you are freaking out about dental repairs but don't really seem bothered about following up a big ticket purchase with another big ticket purchase tells me where you are prioritizing yourself.

      Mysti, you are priceless. Your health is priceless. Just like the health of your children and G-man and every human being on this planet. I mean you can't really have a good relationship with someone if they're dead right?

      Fix the tooth before you pay debt, before you buy concert tickets, before you buy a dress, before you do anything else. Those are the kinds of things that should be causing a beating on your finances. Everything else IS extra even if we somehow tell ourselves they're necessary.

      That being said, I have noticed you tend to fluctuate with the financial attitude. And that is normal but I think you need to really understand what is driving your personal fluctuations. Take a real look and see what the fluctuations in your financial life are connected to. Maybe I'm on to something and it's G-man, or (more likely) I'm way off and it's something else-- maybe it's hormones, maybe it's bouts of depression, maybe it's periods of guilt. You have a blog so it should be easier to see if a pattern emerges. If you track expenses that should make it even easier.

      Personally, I'd put a freeze on the big ticket spending until you get the emotional thing figured out. I'm not saying you have to figure out what you're going to do about it but at least figure out what the emotional triggers are to your personal spending habits. Everyone has them.

      I think that once you figure that out, you might find the most important question is not what an appropriate amount for anything is but, "Why is this purchase important to me and is the reason an honest one or is it a cover for something else going on?"

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  10. I am not commenting from a "holier than thou" attitude--far from it. On the other hand, I've assumed that when you raise certain issues in your blog and the comments are open, that you are looking for feedback. And, as others have noted, it is not reasonable to expect all feedback to be positive. Pool repairs, a new mattress and concert tickets are not "SHIT" from the past year. They are conscious spending decisions on discretionary items.

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    1. People can comment on whatever they want. I am just specifically saying that I didn't ask permission or opinions on the tickets. I can take my share of negative comments. Some are deserved...others not so much.

      My point is that you stated about our lack of progress. I showed you that we have made progress. You disagree.

      Our pool...no secret that I don't like it. But if you have read my previous posts, getting rid of it is more expensive than the average yearly expense. Last year we had $1000 in repairs. It would have still cost more than twice that to get rid of the pool. I don't call the pool discretionary spending...that is part of home ownership. And for what it is worth, we paid cash for the repairs.

      The mattress and tickets...those are discretionary. I didn't want the mattress. But Gman is have a terrible time with the mattress we have, and has for a long time. I gave in on that one and agreed to get a new one.

      Tickets aren't purchased, so they technically are a non issue at this point.

      But notice how you completely glossed over all the things that were out of my control that we dealt with? In one year, with all the other things that happened...our OVERALL credit card debt didn't change. In one year, we managed to keep pace with all the things that happened. But you chose to ignore that.

      Very rarely have you commented to say anything positive. You tend to comment when you disagree with me on something. Your choice to do so. But let's not forget that there is always two sides to the coin.

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  11. There is a fine line between the hand-to-hand combat that is debt reduction and enjoying your life in the here and now. If you decide to go to the concert, do it and don't think about what that money *could* have done to your debt. If you don't go to the concert, apply that money directly to debt and find another entertainment option. In either case, enjoy your time out and then work your budget for next month to eliminate the kid's dentist (as 444 mentioned). I believe in rewards along the way. God Bless!

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    1. The dentist will be paid off next month. Once the retirement loan funds, it will free up $200 a month, which in previous posts I stated was going towards the dental bills, and then would go towards the student loan.

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  12. Mysti, I realize when others look at your debt that they don't take into consideration your new car debt. Nor do they see the amount you paid out in cash last year to fix your old car. If you look at my totals you will see that I had paid off almost $17,000.00 in debt from January of 2011 to May of 20011. Not shabby. I was down to $136,000 including my house! But I bought a much needed car, zoom up my debt went to 154,00.00 It was like I had made no progress. But I had. Because a car and a house are debts that have some value. A house much more than a car but both are secured debt. I do not think it is wrong to take on secured debt if it is needed and it is reasonable. So give yourself a break. I am going to see my daughter to the tune of $500.00 plus time away from my shop, plus, I will sew all three bridesmaids dresses pro Bono. But that is my wish and I have saved for it. So have you.

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  13. ah.. if only our lives were as simple as the numbers or the progress bars on our blogs! I now owe more than I did when I started blogging in 2007 so I guess I'm not making progress either :)

    Most of us don't share ALL the gory details of our lives on our blogs, no one has the right to judge as they are not living our lives each day.

    You have a family to consider, two children that need lots of TLC, a relationship to nurture and enjoy - the last thing you need is a does of guilt. Making a happy home and creating memories is really important.

    Now you go and buy those tickets for you and G-man, go to concert and party the night away- no guilt!

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  14. It is true that I comment infrequently. It is also true that when I've commented it has generally been to signal concern with a purchase that you've made/plan to make which seems ill advised to me. I gloss over the marital infidelity/dental emergencies/medical waiver issues because I have nothing to say about them. I didn't comment during your series of posts about the mattress in part because we were going through something similar and I was struck by how different our decision making was. In our case, I am the one with the very bad back. Like you we also had a very old mattress. After looking at our options (as you did) we decided to get rid of the old mattress and put a blanket and a couple of sleeping bags on the floor UNTIL WE SAVED THE CASH TO PURCHASE THE MATTRESS WE WANTED. After months of camping in our bedroom, cash in hand, we made our purchase. Same result as you, but no debt, no cc, no impact at all on the budget. Like you, we also live in New England and indoor camping is not really my idea of a good time. However, absolute refusal to go into debt dominated all decision making. This attitude makes it possible to quickly make measurable progress. There will always be set backs and emergencies...Many of your commentators function like a cheer leading squad for you, and that is great. It has seemed to me though that you have more than enough of that kind of support; I've tried to balance the "you go girl" comments with comments that are designed to push you in the direction you say you want to go--freedom from debt.

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    1. I agree with Consuelo 100%. If you needed a new mattress, you should have saved the cash for it and gone without until then, whether or not it was camping on the floor, getting some sort of padded mattress pad, etc. Instead the mattress saga has come across (to me) as you feel you can shop b/c of the retirement loan and the relief it is going to bring.

      And I realize you didn't ask anyone's opinion on the concert tickets, but if you put it out there and it will negatively impact what you're trying to do (pay off debt) of course we're going to speak out, the same way I'm sure you'd do the same to us if the situation were reversed.

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  15. Sleeping on the floor while you save up? They're coming after you with spears now.

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  16. Wow... there are a lot of harsh comments here.

    Mysti - it is all about what makes you feel more powerful. And in light of all you and G-man has been through... a concert seems okay.

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  17. Please remember that you put your idea about a concert in the BAD section of your GBU post. So you must have some misgivings about it as well. I enjoy your blog, however, I get the sense that you tend to justify major purchases or things like big birthdays and Christmases. You're children and even you need learn that there is a bigger goal at stake. Otherwise, you will never get out of debt.

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